Creativity isn’t about being loud, it’s about being bold enough to solve problems in innovative ways. Join us as host Elizabeth Bachman sits with special guest Joey Tackett, an award-winning creative director, career coach, and speaker. Together, they dive into the world of creativity, innovation, and problem-solving. Joey shares the true essence of creativity and its role in various aspects of our lives. He explains how creativity is not confined to the stereotypical image of a temperamental artist, but a skill that anyone can tap into, irrespective of their role or background. Joey also explores the dynamic relationship between innovation and creativity. Is there a difference, or are these two words simply interchangeable? Joey also emphasizes the significance of giving quieter voices their due, acknowledging that some of the most revolutionary ideas often come from those who express themselves without fanfare. Don’t miss out on this enlightening episode that challenges conventional perceptions of creativity and empowers you to recognize and embrace your own creative potential. Tune in now!
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You’re More Creative Than You Think
Recognizing And Owning Your Gifts
Welcome to Speakers Who Get Results. On this show, we talk about leadership and presentation skills, creativity, communication, and how you can be creative and own your creativity even if you don’t have the title. Before I go on to describe my guest, let me invite you to see how your presentation skills are doing by taking our free formatted assessment at SpeakForResultsQuiz.com.
That’s where you can see where your presentation skills are strong and where perhaps a little bit of support could help you get the results that you need and the recognition that you deserve. My guest is Joey Tackett. Joey is an award-winning creative director, career coach, and speaker who helps agency leaders and consultants become highly effective, confident, and persuasive communicators and presenters.
He has worked often in the creative agency space. That’s the industry that he has worked in. I asked him to come and talk to us because creativity is such a loaded word, and it’s easy for those of us who can’t draw like me. I have a hard time making my stick figures look like anything worth showing. It’s hard to then accept that you are also creative and to own your own gifts, wherever they show up. The one lovely thing about Joey is he had a 23-year creative agency career.
He’s led creative teams at various size agencies, working with leading consumer and nonprofit brands to enhance their brand experiences, such as the Smithsonian Institution, Target stores, Southwest, CVS Health, and the American Jazz Museum. Being a visual designer and a creative copywriter himself, his agency mentorship and coaching resonate with agency leaders because he truly understands the work each person does on a daily basis.
His agency leadership experience has helped him define and perfect his creative confidence framework, which empowers agency teams and consultants to become effective, confident, and persuasive communicators. He now leads his own agency, the Hey Joey Studio, based in sunny Los Angeles. This was a lovely conversation about art and creativity, and the nature of creativity. You’ll have fun with this interview. On to Joey Tackett.
Joey Tackett, I’m so happy to have you on Speakers Who Get Results. Welcome.
Thanks for having me.
It’s interesting because I get a lot of people who say, “You should have so-and-so on your show.” I go, “Yeah,” then every once in a while come somebody where they’ve actually done their homework. They said, “Talk to Joey Tackett.” I said, “Perfect, hooray.” I’m very happy to be talking to you. Before we get into my long list of questions for you, let me ask you, who would be your dream interview? If you could interview somebody who’s no longer with us, who would it be? What would you ask them, and who should be listening?
That’s a hard one, but I’m going to pick one person. There are many on the list. That person is Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, a name maybe you don’t hear very often, for a couple of reasons. I was not born when she was in office. It’s apolitical when I think about the Kennedys. I look more at the Camelot brand that they created because you may know and we’ve talked about this, I work in branding. That has been my creative agency work throughout the years. I’m so interested in how people create brands organically. The Kennedys did that. I believe Jackie did that. She led the Camelot brand. She created it. She invited people into the White House. She did that beautiful tour. She fought for artistry in the White House. It all started then. I saw that in history.
I would have a lot of questions for her about that. Also, who did you have to convince? Who did you have to push through to get this done? That’s one part. We can talk about her later life, where her philanthropy was great, but that window is most interesting to me. Also, how she handled it when her husband was assassinated. There are movies about that and other things, but the way that she moved through her personal grief to say, the nation needs to celebrate this
She was very meticulous about how all the services went and how the media coverage went. She did it justice, even in the dramatizations of the movies, but I believe they’re accurate. She got pushback on that too, walking in the streets, being available, and being public. She understood that people needed to see them and build that trust. That’s why Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis is someone that’s fascinating to me.
That would be a fascinating interview. To think about the people who were involved in creating a brand like that and what it was like behind the scenes, I’m always curious about that sorts of things. It’s wonderful. I would love to hear that.
Yes, definitely. She was so private as well. She shared what was necessary, but she also was extremely private. That is such an interesting thing when you look at our current state of social media, and everything is public. How would she exist today? How would that brand be built today? Would it have worked? Would the same tactics have worked? There was some mystique about the Kennedy era and specifically Jackie that’s great.
That’s probably almost, not the last time, but near the end of when things were private. If you wanted things to be private, they would be private. It doesn’t happen anymore. Joey, we were talking about creativity. When we had a little chat before I interviewed you, we were talking about what creativity is, and then I’ll tell you why I’m asking.
It’s a big question. Creativity in my mind is boiled down to problem-solving. That may not be what people think because my background is I’m a designer. I’m a visual designer. I’ve worked in the agency space. I am a creative and I have produced creatives. This word is loaded. We can talk about what the loaded is of the word. When you ask me what creativity is, the process of creativity in my mind is problem-solving. I bring that up because it’s polarizing. Many people think I’m not creative and they are. They’re associating it with visual design or artistry or those kinds of things. When we talk about creativity, even when you look at the definition, it’s this process of being creative, and then even baked into the word creative is this idea almost of innovation.
I know we’ve talked about the difference between innovation and creativity, but it’s this idea that it’s creating new ideas. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Creativity is often about pulling something from the past that worked. I don’t think it’s always about new. Creativity is about problem-solving and understanding what we are trying to get to and how we best get there. Honestly, it’s not always the most splashy solution. Sometimes it’s the most prudent solution. That’s still creativity. It’s maybe not what you expected me to say, but I could talk about the other sides of creativity as well, which are what people associate with when they hear the word.Creativity is about problem-solving and really understanding what are we trying to get to and how we best get there. It's not always the most splashy solution. Sometimes it's the most prudent solution. Click To Tweet
I’m interested that you talked about creativity. People associate that with a visual design exactly. The first thing I said to you was something about I’m great with words, but with graphics, I don’t have a hard deck. Does everybody say that when they first meet you?
Yes, they do. When I’ve worked in the agency space, which has been the bulk of my career, 23 years in this space, people hear the word and think, “That’s not me.” They think of the creative professional. They think of the visual designer. They think of the person that’s exuding what I call the brand of creativity. When I say the brand of creativity, it’s more that image. It’s like what we talked about with Jackie. It’s this image of what creative looks like and feels like, and what it means.
I believe that’s often what people hear. Therefore, in their mind, with that definition being true, they’re not creatives. They’re not creatives. They’re not being paid to be a professional visual designer. That does not mean people aren’t creative. I believe that is problematic. I worked in many agency settings with clients as well. Often when they say, “I’m not creative,” it creates this divide between us and them that’s not helpful.
They are able to problem solve as well. Everyone is part of that problem-solving solution. The visual designer like myself or my team members in the agency can take it and do what people then associate with creativity, which is making it big, loud, splashy, and adding colors to it. That’s creativity as well, though that’s visual design. That’s visual creativity. That’s visual execution. It’s one part of the bigger picture. I hate when people see themselves as not part of the process because they are. They just need to understand that you don’t have to be a visual designer to be creative. You’re a creative problem solver. You know what you want to get to. You can help us think through the solutions, and that’s part of it too.
I love that you say problem-solving. I always think of my mother. She was an artist and she could do cartoons. They were sometimes painful. She drew us a lot and it was painful, but she could draw things that looked like what she wanted them to look like. That was never one of my gifts. Early on, I always thought I wasn’t creative, and yet I spent 30-plus years creating in theater and opera, and being creative for a living. I love what you say about problem-solving because I do know for myself, some of my best ideas have come when I’m presented with restrictions. How do you make this work when you have these conditions? You don’t have this. You don’t have that. You don’t have the other. How could we still make something interesting?
This is a great question. This defines what I speak about and who I coach as well, which are agency professionals, agency owners, and consultants. We always have constraints. It exists in the agency space. I believe that often is good because it can create the fence around the yard or the guardrails as we say on the highway. It gives you room to work within something that is boxed in. That’s very good because if you think about problem-solving in its simple form, such as we are driving and our GPS is not working. How do we figure out where to go? You now are problem-solving with people in the car to piece all your ideas together to figure out the route.
It’s very simple. At that moment, you don’t want a lot of other things impacting you. You want a very clear path. You’re trying to solve a very clear problem. I believe focus is important. It makes the best creative work. That being said, within that process, it is important to have what is often in the agency world called sprints. You could think of running. It’s very much like you’re jolting for 30 seconds or running forward for 30 seconds and stopping. It’s the same idea in the design world. It’s called design sprints or creative sprints. That is very important because what that does is it lets the creative problem-solving group run free for a day or an hour or some portion of a project, and they can get all the great ideas out.
They know at the end of that, we’re going to rein all those back. We’re going to curate those ideas, and ultimately, everything is not going to going to be used. The important thing is you get the creative spark out. You’re not stifling creativity. That’s the key difference here that I see often in the agency world with consultants. Probably a lot of professionals in your audience are feeling this way when you’re stifled from the beginning or when you’re told, “We can’t think big. We can’t change the status quo.” Those are negative to creative problem-solving. Those are not good. We have to understand why we have parameters. An example of rules or parameters would be something like the client has to do it in this timeframe.
“We need to deliver this in the next two weeks,” that’s a parameter. Budget is a parameter. We don’t have enough resources to do the big thing. We have to do something else. Those are useful, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t want to let the creative group think big and dream because dreaming is what keeps us all excited. You talk about this in your show episodes as well, and I’ve heard many of your interviews where it’s this idea of being tapped into your highest potential or your highest performance. We want everyone to be there because every person that’s being creative on a project needs that. You need to bring that to the table because then you get the best ideas. Hopefully, that answers the question of it’s the difference between stifling versus focusing or guiding. Those are two very different things.
As you’re talking about this from the point of view of somebody who works with design agencies, what would you then send to the rest of my audience who work with design, who are the customers of a design agency, or the creative department in a large organization? What do you wish your customers outside the creative department would do? First of all, what do you wish for, and what do you wish they wouldn’t do?
Patience is something we learn in the creative space. I’ve been doing this long enough that I’m patient, but that does have a limit. At some point, we do know what’s going to make the client successful. Let’s say we’re talking, and you’re the example here, and we’re kicking off a project or an idea. It’s important for you as the client to understand what you’re trying to achieve. As I talked about problem-solving, we both, or if you have a large team doesn’t matter. Whoever is working on this together, everyone is problem-solving. That’s important.Patience is something we learn in the creative space. Click To Tweet
When we kick off the conversation, that is the role that you as the client are serving. I don’t need you to be the visual designer. I don’t need you to pick colors necessarily. I need you to understand clearly what the problem is. If we can’t get there, then it’s a huge problem from the beginning because we don’t know what we’re making, and we don’t know what we’re solving for. That is huge, and that plays out across the board with anyone.
That’s true if your audience is starting a new position. Whether it’s working with a designer or not, you want the same approach. You need to understand what problems we are trying to fix. You’re usually being brought in to improve upon something, to turn a position around, or turn a team around. Having that clarity is key. Everyone in your audience can do that and can understand what we’re trying to solve.
That is number one, being able to articulate that clearly. As long as you come to the table with that in mind, it doesn’t mean you need all the answers. That’s where we’re willing to work with you and help you get there, but not working with that is hard. This is a dreaded statement, which I’m sure you’ve heard, “I’ll know it when I see it. I’ll know it when I experience it.” That is one of the worst things you can say to any designer because we’ve heard it so many times. If you dig up and tear apart that statement, it suggests “I don’t know what I want. I’m looking and I’m aimless.” Imagine in life if we said, “I’ll know it when I get there.” That’s an aimless life.
You’re just meandering through. That saying lack of clarity comes across in that situation. It’s putting the designer or the creative professional even if they’re doing copywriting or whatever creative output they’re making. It’s very hard to solve that problem because you haven’t clearly articulated it. I did an article for the Forbes Agency Council a couple of years ago about this very thing. Your audience will laugh. It’s a jest but it’s poking fun at this statement, and the woes or the pains that you’re putting your designer through to have to figure out what you want. It goes into it a little bit more.
In terms of defining the problem, it’s a very good point. I often find that for visual things. I have a team that does that for me. I don’t know what it’s going to look like, but I do know the feeling I want it to. I say, “See what you can do within the parameters of the brand and do 2 or 3 versions. Indeed, I will know better when I know the visual parameters that are out there. I just don’t have the time to go onto Canva and try five different colors and so forth.
I’d rather somebody else did that exploring. When you’re talking about being creative and creative solutions to problems, quite often, a team is told to do something innovative. “We’re going to have a brainstorming day because we are focused on innovation. Everything has to be new.” We could talk a little bit about the cultural implications of that too. How do you see the difference between innovation and creativity? Is it two different words for the same thing?
That’s a great point. I know you had done an interview prior with Jennifer Kenny about this, which is great. I had re-listened to that in preparation for this conversation. You go into that with Jennifer or Jen, I believe you call her Jen, about this idea of what innovation means. One of the things about that particular episode, which I find very powerful is you explain, or Jennifer explains, how innovation is bigger than inventing. It’s bigger than coming up with an idea or creating something. I totally agree with that. One of the things that you touch on in that episode is innovation needs to be timely. That’s huge. Let’s build on that a little bit to say that is exactly what needs to happen if we are working together on a creative project.Innovation needs to be timely. Click To Tweet
We need to innovate quickly. The consulting world never lives in timeframes where it’s like, “We’ll launch it when it’s ready.” That never happens. There’s a timeframe. There’s a speed to market that we’re looking for. We’re trying to compete with the marketplace. All these things are very important. With innovation, the key is the words are very similar, but when I think about creativity, what comes to mind is when people use the word, in this case, compared to the word innovation, they’re looking for this wow factor. People say, “I want it to be creative.” They’re really meaning, “I want it to have a punch. I want it to be exciting. I want it to be new and different. I want it to seem like something we’ve never done before.”
That’s what people mean when they say creative in that sense. In that regard, that definition of creativity or creative is very similar to innovation. What is true with innovation is it involves more new ideas, honestly. When you think about innovation, it’s asking for coming up with something new and repositioning things in a new way. In my mind though, when you look at the definition of creativity I believe in Miriam Webster, it does talk about creativity as this idea of coming up with new creations. I don’t widely adopt that view because I don’t think creativity is always new. Creativity is often pulling from the past. If you look at artists, musical artists, films, and reboots of shows, it’s exactly that. We’re reimagining the past.
In some ways, it’s new, but it’s building off the best practices of the past. If I had to tell you that in this conversation, that’s the difference between innovation and creativity. Creativity is more about that overall package and what that looks like to the world. To me, innovation is truly something groundbreaking, something new, a new technology, and a new way of imagining how to communicate with people. That’s how I use the word innovation.
I love that. Joey, how can we own the word? If you are leading something in a department that’s not specifically the creator department, how can we recognize our creativity that does not necessarily involve pen, paper, paints, and canvas?
Do you mean in work in an agency or a professional setting?
In an agency setting or a professional setting. I’m hoping that everything that I talk about on this show translates at home, but I’m mostly talking about a work setting.
Yes, it does. I’ll preface by saying that when we look at the word creativity, we’ve built out a bit of the layer of definitions that I have. I want to tell you the last piece that helps build on this, which is what I call “the brand” of creative. If you think about that, this is what a lot of people are resistant to. I’m a person and I dress a certain way. I come into the agency. I have cool glasses and I’m difficult to work with. That’s what people think of with the brand of creative. It’s this person that’s trying on this persona. In many cases, I’ll pull the curtain back and say this, a lot of creative people put on that persona to feel more creative and to exude this brand of creativity.
To me, that has nothing to do with the art of creativity. It has nothing to do with being a great visual designer. That is merely how you carry yourself in the world. That aside, let’s remove that. Often in the agency space, you’re going to have these creative people that are exuding that brand. You have to look past that persona to understand that you all are more similar than you realize. Just because they have the name and the team doesn’t mean that you can’t use the word yourself. That’s important. Even saying in the agency setting, using the words differently.
I’ve often heard in agencies the idea of big C and little C. We would say that. Big C creative is the team, the brand, the people, and the work. It’s capital. It’s a thing. It’s the package of creativity. Little C creative was the process of being creative, and that involved everybody. You could do that at your agency. It would be very interesting to bring that up. If someone is tuning in today and they’re getting pushback in their agency, the creative team or the design team is being territorial of that word.
Connecting the word creative to problem-solving is big to say, “We creatively problem-solved this, or we are looking at the creative problem-solving aspect of this project,” to delineate the fact that you’re not trying to say you’re a visual designer. You’re saying, “I’m being creative. I’m coming up with a creative solution. We are thinking creatively about this,” because everyone owns that. Everyone can do that.
Good creative people are open-minded and empathetic. Creative people like myself and other people that I’ve worked with won’t give people a hard time in there because it’s not inclusive. However, you’re going to run into some people that are going to hold onto that. They’re owning that brand. It’s just the negative side of our industry. A lot of people want to be that person and be in this elite category, but you have to look past that and realize you’re being creative as well. You’re problem-solving. You’re part of the team. You’re just serving a different function within the creative process.
I’m wondering where that image of the temperamental creative artist comes from. Often, we put up with bad behavior from someone who’s supposed to be there to create or to come up with ideas, 30 years in that business. One of the things that I know is I’m a pretty laid-back calm person. It took me a long time to learn the value of being calm in the middle of a crisis instead of having a big temper tantrum. I remember in Italy, I was working as an assistant. I was assisting a very famous director.
He threw a tantrum. He took me and the other assistant with him. We went over to the hotel room and sat there. I said, “I thought it wasn’t that bad.” He said, “I’m throwing a tantrum because that’s the only thing that’s going to get them moving.” The Italian crew was being obstructive and difficult for some reason. We went over to the hotel room. I read a book for an hour, and then they had somebody come over and be sorry. We came back and then we got some work done. It was part of the game. We still see that now in modern life. I’d be curious about your thoughts about that sort of thing.
That’s a great question and something that I enjoy talking about because I’ve managed agency teams. My background is I’m currently running my own agency. I control and run the shot, or set the tone and call the shots and all those things. I’ve also worked in agencies as well as a senior leader. I’ve built large teams and lived in those constraints, if you will, of what is involved with the culture. I know you talk a lot about culture. I agree with you on those fronts of how important it’s for people to understand what they’re doing and how that’s impacting the culture around them. There are people in the creative industry that struggle with many people, as probably a lot of your audience struggles with either ego or a broken ego, meaning they have imposter syndrome or they don’t feel worthy.
In the creative industry, that persona that you’re picturing is Mad Men. It’s the show here that was popular around the world, but definitely in the United States. It showed that in the 1950s and 1960s, that idea started. You then go through now. You have Anna Wintour, who is the editor of Vogue in the US who has a clear persona that’s very tyrannical, critical, and very elusive. They are personas. That is important. A lot of people embody those personas. They see that. In the creative industry, it is so easy to wake up in the morning and put that persona on because it’s welcome.
We are creative in many cases. We are visual expressionists. We’re creating visual art. It’s not weird for a creative director to come in with cool glasses, weird clothes, and super fine suits. Whatever it is, it’s designed to separate them from you. In many cases, in my opinion, it is designed to put them on a pedestal over you. I hate to say that because it is that feeling of we are here and you are there. That’s the nature of it. A lot of creative people are not that way. There are billions of people on the planet, and many creative directors that I’ve coached and in my peer group are not this way, though there are some that still run their work that way, and that’s how it is.
That perception in the industry is dying because of the newer visual designers and creative professionals that are coming out of school now. I’ve worked with many of them. I love working with young designer interns and cinematographers. They have an open mindset. It’s very inclusive. It’s chill. They are not on a destiny to become the image that you’re describing that we’re not talking about, which is very encouraging. I hope that our industry doesn’t make them jaded to become that. We are able to let it become more inclusive.
In some ways, it’s a gendered thing that you’re allowed to lose your temper if you’re a White man. A man of color, a Black man or a Latino, or an Asian, if he loses his temper, unless he’s a big star, then he becomes a threat. A woman losing her temper is out of place. I remember I tried it for a while back in my opera days. I am naturally a fairly calm person, but I have a temper when people were stabbing me in the back. There were times I thought, “This is how Mark and Stephen get respect. Maybe I will try it.”
It’s a big mistake. I lost my temper. I actually planned it. This is not something I’m very good at. Either they saw right through me, or they wouldn’t take it from a woman. This was back in the 80s and the 90s, so things have moved on since then. It’s one of the double binds that you think is okay. This is also a gendered stereotype. One more question then, do you have any tips for how to point out the value of a creative idea if it does not come from a temperamental person?
Do you mean someone that’s balanced and rational in delivering this idea?
The value of a good idea that comes from somebody who’s balanced and rational because often it’s discounted.
You have to be the loudest in the room. I totally agree. What you said, I’ve seen that to be true in the agency space without giving examples or details. It’s a two-way street. It’s this feeling that the culture is creating an environment where it’s not welcome to speak up. Also, there’s the feeling that if you’re in one of the communities that you described, then you feel that you can’t speak up. It’s almost this tension that’s happening together. I’ve seen that. I will say that the teams that I have run and do continue to run because I’ve built many teams throughout the years of different sizes at different agencies.
One of the things that I’ve always strive to do is to hire with diversity. That is always a work in progress with diversity in mind. I feel I’ve been successful in that, at least by focusing on it. That is there, and the teams represent that to as much degree as we could. What’s important is realizing that some of the best ideas come from the quietest people. When I would run these larger teams, and even now when I work with other creative professionals, you can very quickly learn who’s going to be the loud person and who’s going to be the boisterous person and the difficult person, and who isn’t. Letting the quiet person speak up is important. Asking them in a meeting, “What do you think, you over there, the quiet person?” I’m not calling them out as the quiet person, but pausing and saying, “We’ve heard from the loud people. Let’s talk to the quiet people.”It’s important to realize that some of the best ideas come from the quietest people. Click To Tweet
I learned that many years ago. I can’t take credit for this completely. I learned it from an internship that I was on, and the team leader led things that way. He would call them verbal processors and non-verbal processors. The verbal processors go, and they would make us stop and have one minute before anyone spoke to let the non-verbal processors think, and then it was an equal playing field. When we spoke about the ideas, they were equally weighted. As a team leader, an agency professional, and a manager, you have to make sure you hear everyone’s ideas. That’s the key. You then start realizing that some of the best ideas are in that very quiet person in the corner, or they come up with a nugget that’s so brilliant that it was delivered deadpan, with no emotion.
They revolutionized. They innovated. They created the innovation. They revolutionized the entire thing. It’s very exciting. I don’t think anyone should just listen to the loud people or the difficult people. Honestly, I’ll tell you that I’ve done what you’ve described. People that have worked with me that are tuning in to this show know that I’m by no means perfect. I’ve changed my approach in the past five years where I’m calmer and more patient. There were times when I was so worried about the deadline or the importance of this project and what was there that I became that person that is tyrannical, screaming, and yelling for the sake of perfection.
“We all got to get on board,” and it never works. It always demotivated everyone. Nothing good came from that, in my experience. I vowed never to do it again. Now I set out that you don’t need to scream to get something done, in my opinion. There are still going to be people that do it. They do have good ideas. You can take their ideas but don’t forget the rational, balanced, and calm people because they have good creative ideas as well.Don't forget the rational, balanced, calm people because they have good creative ideas as well. Click To Tweet
That’s what you said so much that’s useful. For anybody who’s tuning in and wants to think about owning their own creativity, look up Joey Tackett. If you’re curious about how to talk about your quiet achievements, it is actually a skill to solve a problem without making a fuss, contact me. That’s part of what I help people with, and we will go from there.
Joey Tackett, thank you so much for joining us on Speakers Who Get Results. This has been Elizabeth Bachman interviewing Joey Tackett. If you enjoyed this, please tell your friends, subscribe, and follow us on YouTube. Do us a favor by going to Apple Podcasts and leaving us a good review and a rating because that’s the one that counts. Thank you very much, Joey, for joining us. This has been Speakers Who Get Results. I’ll see you on the next one.
- Joey Tackett
- Jennifer Kenny– past episode
- Apple Podcasts– Speakers Who Get Results
About Joey Tackett
Joey Tackett is an award-winning creative director, career coach, and speaker, who helps agency leaders and consultants become highly effective, confident, and persuasive communicators and presenters.
During his 23-year creative agency career, he has led creative teams at various size agencies, working with leading consumer and non-profit brands to enhance their brand experiences, such as the Smithsonian Institution, Target, Southwest, CVS Health, and the American Jazz Museum. Being a visual designer and creative copywriter himself, his agency mentorship and coaching resonates with agency leaders because he truly understands the work each person does on a daily basis.
His agency leadership experience helped him define and perfect his creative confidence framework, which empowers agency teams and consultants to become effective, confident and persuasive communicators.
He now leads his own agency, Hey Joey Studio, based in sunny Los Angeles.