Winning Leadership Strategies With Sherry Winn

 

Success isn’t just hard work and dedication. For true success, you’ll need winning leadership strategies to push you over the edge. In today’s episode, Elizabeth Bachman gets deep into a conversation with two-time Olympian, National Basketball Coach of The Year, and three-time Amazon bestselling author, Sherry Winn. Sherry talks about her days as an Olympic athlete and dealing with her gender identity. She discusses discrimination, how she fought back, her WIN formula, and the power of feedback.

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Winning Leadership Strategies With Sherry Winn

Lessons From A Two-Time Olympian

This is the show where we interview experts from around the world on topics such as presentation skills, leadership, visibility, communication challenges. My guest is Sherry Winn, who is an Olympic Athlete and a Leadership Coach. Before I tell you all about Sherry, I want to remind you that if you are curious about how your presentation skills are shaping up, you can take our free assessment at SpeakForResultsQuiz.com. There in about four minutes, you can see where your presentation skills are strong and where a little support might help you get better results. My conversation with Sherry Winn was very interesting. Not only is she a two-time Olympian, she was the National Basketball Coach of The Year and a three-time bestselling author on Amazon.

 

She is an in demand internationally renowned speaker. She speaks for up to 14,000 people at a time, including for companies such as StubHub, Anytime Fitness, New York Life, Edward Jones and Technicolor. She had years of practicing leadership as a National Championship Basketball Coach and as a two-time Olympian. Sherry is an expert at coaching leaders and team members to championship status. She has successfully taken leaders beyond their levels of comfort to win against competitors who are superior in talent facilities and financial budgets. Through her WIN Philosophy and her WINNER Principles, she shares insider secrets on how to succeed, even when the odds seem insurmountable, so that your team feels, act and conquers their goals like Olympians.

We started out talking about how she was discriminated against as a gay woman in sports. This episode is part of the Pride Month Series of the show, where we are featuring renowned experts who happened to be gay. Sherry talked about how do you face discrimination? How do you feel about discrimination? What was it like for her as a gay woman on the US Olympic team? We also talk about leadership and how we need to know each other. We need to know ourselves. We need to know who we are talking to. The WIN Philosophy is very good, exciting and interesting. That led us into a conversation about giving and receiving feedback, which has so many interesting things. Without further ado, let’s go to the interview.

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Sherry Winn, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Elizabeth. I’m so happy to be here. I’m thrilled to be chatting with you.

I’m happy to be talking to you. I have to remember to ask you about the colorful tennis shoes. That’s one of the things I always remember whenever I have seen you. You have these great bright tennis shoes on. Before we do that, I want to ask you about your dream interview. If you could interview somebody who is no longer with us, who would it be? What would you ask them? Who should be listening?

Wilma Rudolph was an Olympian in 1960. She won the first woman to ever win three gold medals at an Olympic game. Why she is so impressive is not that she won a three gold, which is incredible, but she was born with polio. When she was a child, she couldn’t walk. They didn’t think she would ever be able to walk without braces. They didn’t think she would ever be able to run like that was impossibility. For Wilma and her mom, they didn’t accept what other people believed as reality. What I love to see people do is escape the prison that somebody else has put them in. When everybody else is saying this is the only possibility you have, they go, “I’m not going to live that life. I’m going to choose to live the life that I want.” I’d ask Wilma, “What was your key? How were you able to overcome all these beliefs that other people had, these limiting beliefs that placed on you? How did you overcome that? What was the driving force behind you becoming so incredibly athletic that you could win not 1, not 2 but 3 gold medals they had never ever been done before?” That is what I find fascinating in people.

The number one thing that makes a great leader is emotional intelligence. Click To Tweet

She was a black woman. Growing up in the ’50s, it was the 1960 Olympics, she was dealing with segregation, Jim Crow. As a black woman, she made it to the US Olympic team and then she won three gold medals.

Being black at that time was not an easy path either. Somebody who could forego all the limitations, beliefs, hatred that are thrown at them by other people, to overcome that and to live a life of her dreams, that is something we all aspire to do, to live the life of our dreams. Not to allow other people to bundle us up in their belief systems.

Other people tend to define you. That is always the challenge. How do you answer that? As we are talking about this, this is the first interview of the Pride Month Series that I’m doing. This is my nod to wonderful experts who happened to be gay. You had this career on the Olympic team and then as a coach. Did you face discrimination as a gay woman?

Yes, in many different ways. One of the first things I remember was being at the World Championship in 1981 in Budapest, Hungary. Our team was sitting down for a meal as we used to do these big, long tables that meals took about 1 to 1.5 hours. We would start having conversations. One of my teammates said and I will never forget this. She said they should take all gay people. Put them on an island and then blow up the Island. That was one of my first memories of being discriminated and being hated by a team member.

Did she know you were gay? Did you know you were gay at this point?

I knew. I don’t know that she knew. Maybe I could imagine that would occur. Certainly, there were many incidences where teammates said things that were harmful and hurtful. The coaches at that time in ’81 didn’t talk about it. Although there have been incidences before I got on the team where the coach blamed lesbians, the women on the team for a loss, not qualifying for a specific event. That had happened before I got on the team. I was aware that there were certain biases against discrimination, against being gay, being a lesbian. It was already there.

I thought sports were full of lesbians.

In 1981, they weren’t out. Nobody was out. It was very hidden, rarely talked about. I can remember one of the things that happened. This must have been ’83-ish. I don’t remember the soap opera because I didn’t watch them. There was a soap opera that was going to introduce a gay actor. I can remember us, the gay women, all gathering in the room because we couldn’t believe this was going to occur. That was something that was new, original and a risk at that time. In 1988, my Olympic coach sexually harassed me during the Olympic Games. This was at while we were there. One of the things that was later said to me as I reported this was that he could not have possibly harassed me because I was a lesbian.

 

We have a long way still to go, but we have come a long way. That’s good to know. When you were a coach, did you face discrimination when you were the person in power?

There was an event that occurred that was horrific. I was accused by my players of sexually harassing them. Going backwards, the team had been losing for a long time. When I came in, there were two girls on the team whose parents were prominent members of the community. They were not my recruits but they were already there. The parents have a lot of money. As I came in, I started making changes. One resulted in less playing time for a young lady and the other was less points per game. As their parents got angry at them, they then had to find a scapegoat. They created a story that I was sexually harassing them. It went to the administration. The administration not knowing how to deal with this did not interrogate them.

They let them tell a story. They let things go like this was their biggest claim. Thinking back was, this is insane. She forced us against our will to sit with the lesbian at our table, which did not happen even if it had occurred. What happened was we lost the game and they wanted to go home with their parents. I said, “No, we’re going to sit together as a team. Your parents are welcome to join us and have dinner together.” One of my friends didn’t walk in and go, “I’m a lesbian.” She didn’t do that. She wasn’t saying anything that would be associated with it. She came and set the table with us. That’s all she did. That was their main claim of sexual harassment. I almost got fired for it.

Were you working for a school at this point?

I was. There was media. Denver Post ran with this article, splashed it across the whole headline, “A woman coach sexually harasses her team members.” The news reporters came to interview. Once I’d been interviewed by the newspaper and I saw what they did to my answers, how they took my answers and chopped them up to make it seem that I was guilty, I refused to be interviewed again. I was like, “I’m not going to do this again.” They wanted the big story.

As a leadership coach, how do you use what you learned from that experience to help others? How does that feed into what you’re doing?

The number one thing that makes a great leader is emotional intelligence. Looking at that, what that means is number one, the ability to be self-aware. Number two is the ability to manage your emotions. Why is that important your ability to manage emotions? The third thing with emotional intelligence is the ability to manage your relationships. If you can’t manage your emotions, you cannot manage relationships. You can’t manage your emotions if you don’t know who you are and why you are who you are. All of that is bundled together. All of that means that your most important thing is people in any business. Your relationships are essential in everything you do, relationships with somebody else, your team members, your leaders, your board of directors, your customers, your clients. All this comes back to the ability to manage your emotions.

You can't manage your emotions if you don't know who you are and why you are who you are. Click To Tweet

If you don’t like yourself, there’s no possibility to be liked by anybody else. If you judge others for who they are, it’s going to be impossible to have a great relationship with them. When you are talking about this, it’s about accepting people for who they are, working with them no matter who they are or their religion, culture, sexual orientation, age. What’s the most important thing is can they, are they willing to do their job and do the best of their ability? That’s what matters. How you do that is to build great relationships with people, to help people in the relationship and in their personal growth.

You mentioned the WIN formula. Sherry Winn, that’s a great name to go ahead, use that for a brand and how you talk about it. What is the WIN formula?

It comes in my book, Unleash The Winner Within You: A Success Game Plan for Business, Leadership and Life. It talked about the WIN Philosophy. It’s based on three things. W stands for Widen the separator gap. What that means is most people just do the givens. It’s a given that if you have a job, you go to your job. It’s a given that you do the things you are supposed to do. It’s a given that you do satisfactory work. Those are all givens. A lot of people do the givens and they want what the separators have. If you are going to be successful, you have to be willing to do the things that nobody else is willing to do. That creates you as a separator.

Could you define separator for us, please?

Separators are more successful. Why are they more successful? It’s because they are willing to do the things that nobody else is willing to do. Success can be different things. It could be wealth, great relationships, better health, many different things however you define it. Most people aren’t willing to do the extra. They just want. They are not willing to do. That’s the W.

Let me finish with the separator. The separator separates themselves from the normal. Is that from the run of the average?

It’s from the average.

WIN is for? Give me the W again.

W stands for Widen the separator gap. I is for Identify I am as your power words. The two most powerful words in the universe are the words I am. Whatever you say after those words, it becomes your truth. We ae not aware of the internal words that we say. Many times, our internal words are things like, “I’m not good enough. I’m not pretty enough. I’m not handsome enough. I am not smart enough.” We use those words. We expect a different result. You become what you think about most of the time, whether you want it or not. It’s becoming aware of the words that you use because that determines your outcome. Successful people dream about success. They talk about success internally. When I say success, it’s broad. Happiness could be success for you, which by the way, most people will spend their entire lives trying to get happy and very few attain that.

That’s the I, Identify I am as your power words. The N is Navigate success. Many people think success comes and they will tell me a multitude of excuses of why they haven’t gotten there. What I say is, “You must navigate it. You can’t expect success. You will have obstacles. They are certain in your life. Not one of us escapes the challenges of life. The people who gain success are the people who are willing to navigate it. They find a way through it.” There are many people, Elizabeth, say to me, “I would have been an Olympian if only.” I’m like, “Stop it. There is no if only. If you would have been an Olympian, you would have been an Olympian. There is no if only in there. There is no excuse. There is no label. There is nothing that you could put in there that makes it okay. You either were or you weren’t and that’s it.”

Certainly, whether you make it to an Olympic team or not, you do learn great things. How do you share the things that you have learned along the way that we can use in everyday life?

The first thing is that we always think it’s the result that we’re aiming for because we think the result is going to define us. What I noticed about myself is I believe that if I became an Olympian, I’ll attain all the things I thought that I was looking for. When I got there, I was like, “This is not it.” I had to become a two-time Olympian. After that success, that pinnacle, I still did not feel the things I wanted to feel. I thought I needed to become a national championship coach and then I will get it. None of those were what I was looking for. What I was looking for was internal. It’s never external. We just think it’s external. What you are looking for is always internal. I’m not saying don’t go certainly for what you want. Go for everything that you desire. Do that. What you want to do is understand that everything you desire is within you. It’s not outside of you. The first thing you’re looking for is what do I think I’m missing within my life? It’s not out there somewhere. It’s always inside. Your journey is within. We think our journey is outside of us but the toughest journey that you’re ever going to face is inside of you.

What we learn about ourselves is always the most important part, especially for leadership. You have to know yourself well enough to know what you’re good at and maybe what you’re not good at or where the traps are. I know that for many years there are certain things I will tell my staff to say, “Here is where I know I’m not good at this. I need you to support me here.” This is one of the things where you will tell me, “This going to run straight out of my brain. It won’t even stick for five minutes. I want to have somebody else who was easy for that.” This is exciting about the things that you have been doing how you are doing that. As people, how do we apply this philosophy in business, life, leadership? How can we think of the WIN Philosophy? The whole reason for being a show host is to interview smart people so that you can learn from them. I want to learn from you. How can we apply it?

When I coach CEOs, CFOs, COOs, even middle management, the first thing we are going to do is to tap into self-awareness. It’s the most important thing. You have to learn who you are. You cannot give what you don’t have. People think that they know who they are. The truth is it’s only through a continual journey. Do we discover all of us? I’m always in self-discovery. I have coaches who helped me look at myself and I’m like, “I did that? No way,” By the way, if somebody says something to you and you get defensive, that’s a great indicator that’s part of what you need to work on. Those are the two indicators.

I hate it when my trainers are right. It’s taken me years to learn to be able to do that.

People want to be led by somebody who’s very self-aware. I’m writing a new book called Winning Leadership: Seven Secrets to Employ Champions and Sales Superstars. I have been interviewing CEOs around the country. I was talking to the former CEO of FedEx distribution center. He was pretty high in the chain. He’s CEO of HERBL distributing. He is a wonderful man. This is what I loved about him. He is so self-aware. We were talking and he said that he sent out a video to this team. You have 850 distribution centers. You’re not going to talk to every one of them. His DEI calls him up, his vice-president.

That’s the diversity, equity and inclusion person.

Calls him and says, “You missed a great opportunity. You weren’t aware of the things you didn’t say and the things you needed to say.” He said, “The first thing I wanted to do was to tell him I’m right, how long I’ve been in this business. I know what I’m doing. I stopped.” I thought about it. He said, “At that moment, I wasn’t able to say that she was right. I had to think about it.” He ends the conversation. He thinks about and he goes, “I was wrong. She is right.” He calls her and says, “I’m so sorry. You are right. I should have first gone to you. I should have listened to you. I should have recognized that there is a better opportunity here. I apologize.” The result of that was she sent him an email saying, “You are the most incredible person I’ve ever worked for.” This is the first response I’ve ever gotten to somebody who apologized. She goes, “I was ready for a fight. I was ready to gear up and fight you. Instead, you recognize. I can’t even begin to explain to you the difference this makes.”

What I say to people when I’m working with someone, “I wish I was the one who worked with this guy but he was far advanced. He is way up there. He has already done the work.” Many of the people I have worked with haven’t done the work. They don’t get the same results as this CEO got. He has somebody over-motivated to work for him. That’s what happens. When you are aware and able to recognize your defense system, hear the internal words and recognize you don’t have to be right. This is the number one thing that creates conflicts, Elizabeth, our need to be. It often happens to us and we don’t even recognize it as it’s occurring. When you can get people to recognize that, that is the self-awareness piece. For me, that is what widens the separator gap, people who are willing to do the internal work.

The most important thing is, are they willing to do their job and to the best of their ability? That's what matters. Click To Tweet

As you were talking about this, I was thinking about the topic of feedback, giving and getting feedback. A lot of the work that I do is around communication between men and women, where we should assume that men and women are speaking different languages. We don’t think we understand each other, the masculine mode and the feminine mode. There are certainly men who are well in the feminine mode and women who were in the masculine mode. It’s nothing, not all the time. One of the things I have been noticing and working on for myself is men or the masculine mode is to treat feedback as information. The feminine mode receives feedback as a personal criticism. I keep thinking about that line from the movie You’ve Got Mail where Tom Hanks says to Meg Ryan, “It’s not personal, it’s just business.” It makes a lot more sense to me. I don’t think the screenwriters intended it that way. How can we treat the challenge of giving feedback? How can we treat the challenge of getting feedback?

First of all, thank you for being a person who recognizes the need for that and for coaching people on that. That’s beautiful. The first thing is we have to teach people the difference between criticism and constructive feedback because people don’t know. What I mean by that is so many times, your leader, your bosses, your coaches are giving you constructive feedback what you hear as criticism. The reason that occurs is that we don’t know the difference and we’ve never been taught with difference. One of the things I teach people is that criticism is demeaning, demoralizing and destructive. When a person gives you that, you then go to that, “Don’t take it personally because it’s not about you.” When somebody is that person, then it’s not ever about you, it’s about who they are. It’s about their lifetime of experiences that have brought him to this place.

The biggest mistake we make when somebody is criticizing us and they’re being negative is that we allow them. We take their stories our story and we don’t see the difference. That is criticism. The first thing you teach people is there is a difference between criticism and coaching. I like to call it coaching. You can call it constructive feedback. Please never ever call it constructive criticism. The word criticism implies something negative. We have to teach people that coaching is a gift. If I care enough about you, Elizabeth, to want you to be better, to give you the opportunity to be more successful, I’m giving you a gift.

We have to teach people the difference between criticism and coaching, why we coach. What happens is that many times we forget that people think that they are the same thing. We have to make the effort to remember, to remind people and to teach people, “If I’m giving you the gift, if I’m coaching you and you get defensive, I have to stop and say, ‘Elizabeth, remember that the reason that I’m having these conversations with you is because I care. I want you to be better. I want you to have the best, most successful career that you could have. That’s why I’m offering you this gift.’” That’s what people forget to do and that is why it doesn’t work.

There is another piece of it about not being specific, especially women and female leaders who have to criticize their team will be so gentle that the person who needs to change doesn’t understand that they need to change. I’m sure you found that.

There is no ever a reason to criticize. There are lots of reasons to give coaching. Criticism to me is not getting a result. It’s being demeaning, demoralizing and destructive. I feel I need to coach my team and I’m too soft. There is a difference between coaching and having the crucial conversation. What I’m hearing you say, Elizabeth, is the crucial conversation. Coaching is, “You got misdirection. I need to change your course of action to get you back on track.” That is coaching. When you need to tap this other conversation, that is crucial conversation, what you are talking about and we get too soft, that is different because there, what happens is we don’t know how to have that crucial conversation and we get to solve. The person misses the point of the conversation. You are still not being critical. You are simply giving them the roadmap. I have a specific way. I teach this. It’s way too long for us to go over but I call it The Victorious Method.

There is a way to enter this conversation that you go through the conversation so that the person gets the gist, the importance of it. They understand that they don’t change. There’s going to be a serious consequence. You can do that in a way that it’s not critical. You can do it in a way that you’re giving them the roadmap, tell them understand the consequences of not changing. That is the choice. They can choose at the end of the conversation which direction they are going to go, but they clearly understand consequences of not choosing that direction. I can call it a crucial conversation versus coaching. There are two different things you are talking about. One is coaching. One is having that crucial conversation. When you can clearly differentiate and having the assertive communication skills, which comes back to you being self-aware, this is not negative. Even if I’m having that tough conversation with you, Elizabeth, it’s not negative because I’m giving you the opportunity to change so that you can have a better life and a better career.

I like to say single focus versus multi-focused. People who are single focused don’t recognize that the multi-focused people on their team need to feel included. They need to feel like they are a part of something. The single focus person can do it themselves. It’s the old hunter versus gatherer metaphor where the hunter is going to go off and kill that saber-toothed tiger himself. Not share and be able to do it. You want to be single focused there. Whereas the gatherer is going to notice the tiger is about to go into the fire or walking by that mushroom is edible and I need to gather this. The gatherer needs to be multi-focused and also needs to be part of the group, which means that being socialized into masculine or feminine mode comes from those days. There is a lot of history there behind us. I love what you say about being aware. As long as you are aware that this is what you will probably default to, then you can intentionally bring in people who are going to bring other pieces to the conversation.

 

It comes back to how do I sound to other people. Is the language that I’m using matching something they can hear? Many people go something like, “I’m the leader. They should all adapt to me.” I’m like, “That’s an uncontrollable factor.” What you have control over is you. If you have control over you and you want the best results, you have to speak the language that other people can hear. You have to know your people. You have to take the time to know your people. It’s knowing your faults. For example, you are saying the hunter. I would say I’m a hunter of the warrior, the driver, the go getter, any of those, that’s all me. I have to recognize how it can come across to people, how I can sound. This is what I teach people.

I was doing a call. I was going to do a motivational talk in Wyoming to a group of about 5,000 people. I live in Montana. The power goes out before I leave. Sometimes we get huge wind storms here and I had to leave. I could not wait for the power to come on because it could be a day. It’s about six-hour drive. I get to Wyoming. I call my neighbor, the only neighbor I have, by the way and say, “Michelle, I need you on my house in.” I was like, “I’m asking for favor and I’m giving a command.” I realized that immediately. I stopped and I said, “I’m so sorry, Michelle. How are you doing?” That’s not my intention. “Is the wind still blowing? Did you lose the limbs of your trees? Is everybody okay? How’s your son? Michelle, would it be possible if you could get to my house, check out my power and turn off the lights for me? I will appreciate it.”

Because I recognized who I was and how I was sounding, I was able to change the conversation. When we become aware of not only who we are and how we sound, but how the other person’s receiving it. When we become aware of that, we can change that and it will give us a different direction. What that does for you is it helps your people be more motivated. What that does is keep them engaged, how they engage. What that does is keep you retaining people so a successful business has high engagement. They have higher retention. They don’t have to worry about those horrible rates. That’s what a successful business looks like. It starts with your self-awareness. The ability to continue to work on that is critical, crucial, essential.

Tell us a little bit more about the book you have coming up.

It’s called Winning Leadership: Seven Secrets to Employ Champions and Sales Superstars. That works with my background of being a former two-time Olympian and National Championship Basketball Coach. It works well with both my athletic career as a player and as a coach. Continuing on to understand, most people want to be champions, most people want to be superstars. When I started this book, I was coached. Like people that I coach, I have a coach. I continue to be coached. I always unravel something new, something better, a better version of myself. I was coached to go interview. I have interviewed almost 200 CEOs of large companies like Land O’Lakes. The CEO is Beth Ford who is a lesbian. She is very out, a very wonderful person from huge corporations to smaller companies of maybe 20, 25 or 30.

This process has been wonderful. First of all, I have developed wonderful relationships with folks I would never have had an opportunity to speak with. Secondly, it’s given me great stories. There are two things I love. I love quotes and great stories from people. People identify with quotes and stories. It’s given me a ton of quotes and stories to put in this book. If they want to become a great leader, if they want to sharpen their leadership skills, they can read this book. If the CEO of FedEx, the CEO of Land O’Lakes, the CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield, all these people who have given wonderful stories to me. I have had a blast. If these people can do it or this is how they lead then I can too.

Can you share the seven secrets with us or we have to wait until the book comes out?

You have to wait until the book comes out because we are still editing to make sure they sound the right way. That it evokes emotion. This is what I know, Elizabeth that I’m sure you know this too. When people feel something, they are more likely to change.

Sherry Winn, this has been wonderful. I have one other question to ask you. When I first met you, we were both auditioning for a speaker spot at a conference. You had these bright tennis shoes. I have seen pictures of you on stage with bright neon tennis shoes. Clearly, this is a brand statement. I can guess, but I would like to hear your story.

If you're going to be successful, you have to be willing to do the things that nobody else is willing to do. Click To Tweet

It’s not a brand statement. A lot of people would say it was a brand statement. It came out of necessity. Years ago, I started losing the fat pads on my feet. Not very many people have this challenge. What happened is I couldn’t wear any shoe that had a hard sole in it. I couldn’t stand long enough in those shoes. I got these shoes that had soft, thick soles. I started wearing those shoes because that is the only way I could stand. If I was standing on stage for an hour for 14,000 people, I wouldn’t be able to stand in a pair of nice, beautiful, hard soled shoes.

I had to wear tennis shoes. I still wear tennis shoes because I still have the problem. It becomes a part of who I am. I will tell you this, Elizabeth. Initially, I was embarrassed about wearing shoes. It was the same thing I think that many people come to about who they are. If you look at it, are you embarrassed about your sexual orientation, your skin color, the way that you are, the color of your hair? That is a self-awareness piece. You have to come to love all parts of you. Gradually, I came to love that part of me as well.

Sherry Winn, I’m so happy to have you as a guest on the show. Is there one thought you could leave us with?

The winner is always within you. Stop looking outside of you. It is always within you. Work on those inside thoughts, feelings. Work on loving yourself unconditionally, which by the way is a lifelong project.

Thank you so much. Let me remind you that if you are curious about how your presentation skills are stacking up, you can take our free four-minute assessment at SpeakForResultsQuiz.com. That is where you can see where you are strong with your presentation skills and where a little support might help you get better results. Sherry Winn, thank you for joining us. I will see you on the next one.

 

Important Links

• SpeakForResultsQuiz.com
• Unleash The Winner Within You: A Success Game Plan for Business, Leadership and Life
• http://www.TheWinningLeadershipCompany.com/
• http://www.Facebook.com/TheWinningLeadershipCompany/
• https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/TheWinningLeadershipCompany/
• https://www.Instagram.com/TheWinningLeadershipCompany/
• https://www.Youtube.com/channel/UC3huFR2Xxr6qTbf4FqimLUA

 

About Sherry Winn