How Sticky Floors Keep Women Below The Glass Ceiling With Erica Anderson Rooney

 

In this episode, host Elizabeth Bachman connects with Erica Anderson Rooney to discuss the hidden challenges that often keep women from breaking through glass ceilings and reaching their full potential in the workplace. Erica dives into internal barriers like self-doubt and limiting beliefs, sharing her practical framework for breaking free and building confidence. Listeners will gain valuable strategies for moving beyond perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and people-pleasing habits. This conversation offers actionable insights for anyone looking to unlock their potential and advance their career.

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How Sticky Floors Keep Women Below The Glass Ceiling With Erica Anderson Rooney

Introduction And Guest Welcome

Erica Anderson Rooney, I am so happy to meet you and to have gotten you on the show. You were recommended to me by one of my other guests. I went, “How have I not known you before now?” I’m delighted to have you here.

Elizabeth, I can’t wait to dive into this conversation. I am so honored to be here as well.

Before we talk about gender equity and the things we can do about it, let me ask you about your dream interview. If you could interview somebody who’s no longer with us, who would it be? What would you ask them, and who should be listening?

When I thought about this question, I had to think about it. I had to pause. The person that came to my mind that I could not shake was Elizabeth Taylor. She had the most fascinating life. She grew up as a childhood star in a time when the world was coming into its own and all of this other stuff, but this is a woman when you look back at her life, she was married eight times to seven men. That’s unheard of in today’s world, let alone as she grew up throughout.

She struggled with what I call sticky floors throughout her life and was very public about them. She was the first celebrity to openly admit herself to the Betty Ford Clinic for addiction and things like that. A very powerful woman. What I would love to dive in and dig deep into is figuring out and asking her, “How did you stay so authentically true to yourself?” That’s the vibe I get from her. I get this vibe that she believed she deserved happiness and that she was entitled to it, and it didn’t matter if she had to marry eight men or not she was going to go after it. That would be my dream interview.

That would be great fun. I must say that in several years of this show, you are the first person who suggested Elizabeth Taylor. That would be great. I will be happy to be listening to that. Also, I loved the way that she became an activist, then in all the work she did for AIDS when nobody else was talking about AIDS, and when she said, “These are human beings, and these are our brothers, our sons, our fathers. We need to be paying attention to this disease.”

Which again was unheard of back then.

Most people have forgotten that, but that was a big part. She was a big factor in getting the medical community to pay attention to AIDS and say, “It’s not for those crazy gay boys over there.”

I love it. She’s such a fascinating woman.

Great choice. Very interesting. You’ve written this book called Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors. As I have told you, I am so jealous. I wish I had thought of that first. Tell us, please, what the sticky floors are.

We all know the glass ceiling. We have heard about that proverbial ceiling that women and minorities can’t bump through. I am a relatively young woman that got to the C-Suite, and so, I busted through these glass ceilings. It was not easy by any means, but I kept looking at these depressing statistics about a 132-year gender pay gap, and a leadership gap.

Explain the 132-year gender pay gap.

According to the Pew Research Center, in order for a woman to be paid an equal dollar because right now, we are paid $0.80 for every $1 that a man earns, it will take 132 years to reach pay equity if we advance at the rate that we are advancing. That slowed down with the pandemic, when the pandemic hit because so many people had to make a decision to stay home with their kids and who do you think that was? It was the women. Why was it the women? Often because it was the women who were earning less. Why were we earning less? It’s because there’s this pay gap that’s looming.

There’s the maternity behind us. The motherhood bias.

The broken rung, the glass cliff. There are all of these things that impact women in the workforce. This idea of sticky floors was like, “I’m not going to wait for the systems to fix themselves.” That type of work takes generations and generations to do. What can I do? And I got curious about that, and it became this looking inward process, where it’s almost I’m looking in, and I’m looking all the way down, and I’m looking at the floor that I’m standing on and it’s like, “We’ve got to clean up our mess. We’ve got to clean up our own house if we are going to shatter these ceilings.”

The Power Of Self-Awareness

That’s where this idea of sticky floors came into play, and it’s like, “What is within my span of control that is keeping me stuck, that is keeping me held back, that’s taking me longer to do things?” Is it fear of what other people will think? Is it imposter syndrome? Is it perfectionism? I started interviewing a ton of women who were in executive or VP-level roles, and they all had these different types of themes, whether it was struggling with imposter syndrome or perfectionism. I recognized that all of these women were going through the same things. We weren’t talking about it because we wanted to maintain this picture of, “I’ve got it all together.” That’s where the concept of sticky floors began but it’s a movement to say, “We don’t have to wait for the systems to fix themselves. Let’s start internally, and then together, we can work on the system.”

I do very very similar work with women, approaching it through language and how we talk about what we do. What I have noticed is, women are constantly saying, “Men, they don’t listen.” When you break it down, it’s maybe half, 50%, that men don’t listen and maybe the other 50% is how women stop themselves. What are some of the factors on these sticky floors? What’s some of the glue that keeps us stuck?

The very first thing that came to my head about communication was the idea that women have a tendency to soften things instead of being very direct with what we need and what we want. “I need to make $100,000 a year, and I need to work 4 days a week.” It’s a very simple ask but a lot of times, women will come around and say, “I could make more money, that would be helpful, but I love what I do. It’s okay if that doesn’t work out for you.” We try to placate it a lot, and we try to make it nice for other people. It’s this whole idea of people pleasing and doing for others and putting ourselves last, which is often something that we do.

I think we are socialized to do as girls. It is a leftover, it’s a holdover. Thank you, ancestry. Thank you, foremothers. That’s a holdover from the days when women had to placate men because men had all the temporal power. I was reading a novel set in the 1890s, and one man caught his wife having an affair and consigned her to an insane asylum, and nobody questioned it, because he wanted to get rid of her, and there was no way she could do something about that. That was a novel, but that happened. Let me ask you then, there’s a penalty for being too direct. How do we walk that tightrope?

It’s interesting that you bring that up. My friend, Alison Fragale, wrote the best book on this, and it’s called Likable Badass, but it is all for women. It’s about how you show up as both caring and competent at the same time because right. If we show up too direct, we are bossy, we’re a bitch, we are mean, and all of the things. It’s like you have to show up being a bit warm so that people do like you but also express your competence in your skills and your abilities. It is a fine line, but do you know why women are so tired of it? We are so tired of trying to find that long line and walk that line, and we want to show up as our authentic selves, but it takes time to get there. People do have to like you to get ahead, especially when we are in Corporate America. You have to figure out, “How can I be liked and respected at the same time?”

How do we do that?

I’m a big fan of getting to know your people one-on-one. I spent years as a Chief People Officer in tech, and what I have found is that when you establish those relationships and you focus on getting to know the person for who they are, what matters to them, and what they care about, then you can become warm and approachable, and people learn to trust you. For me, that all stems from relationships and pouring into the other person, getting to know who they are.

It makes such a difference why I’m so glad we are finally talking about emotional intelligence and the fact that men need to learn how to relate. Men don’t get a pass for being bossy and obnoxious anymore. They get away with that longer because we have this historical paradigm that that’s what men do.

Times are shifting. They say one of our greatest assets as female leaders is our empathy because we are talking now about bringing our whole selves to work. Back in the day, it was very compartmentalized. You showed up to the office, you left your baggage at home, you did your work, and then you went home at 5:00 at the end of the day. Also, back then there were no emails, no late-night phone calls, and no 24/7 operations. Life was very much compartmentalized.

Empathy is a leader’s superpower. Bringing our whole selves to work is no longer optional—it’s essential to real, authentic leadership. Share on X

Global teams talking to different hours a day.

Now we are much more integrated. This means if I can’t compartmentalize work, I can’t compartmentalize myself. We do need more female leaders to step up, show up, and be authentic in the workplace, bringing that emotion as well.

This might be a dangerous question. How can you show up as caring and empathetic without giving away your power and doing so much to support your team that you don’t lead? There’s another fine line to walk.

People love collaboration, but they also love decision-makers. You have to understand, again, another fine line. What is that line of collaborating with your team, seeking out expertise, understanding the landscape, and then making decisions? I’m a big fan of making decisions quickly, moving on, and learning from any mistakes that come from it. When I lead teams and work to establish that trust, I also work on establishing failure, encouraging the team to fail, fail fast, own those failures, and then move on. That’s how I approach it.

One thing that I learned when I founded an opera company and I was a boss. I had been working for many years by then in the opera business, but as a stage director, your role is very specifically defined. I could collaborate and give instructions because that’s what I was supposed to do, but then when I had to help my team and work with my team, thank God I had a number two who finally sat me down and said, “Be clear, don’t hint.” I realized that I had been trained, like many women, to give a hint, “Wouldn’t it be nice if such and such happened?” Which confused the people who were working for me. I didn’t realize until she said that. That’s one of those things where I see now with my clients. They want a promotion, and they drop a hint in front of the manager, and the manager thinks of something else, and the manager doesn’t notice it. Then they think, “She hates me,” but they didn’t ask.

Importance Of Direct Communication

Being direct and clear is kind when you are asking for something. It’s kind when you are giving directions. It’s kind when you are looking for feedback, to receive or give it. You’re right. We have this very American way of dancing around the subject and hoping somebody understands what we are saying between the lines instead of asking for what we need, either to be done or what we want.

Being direct and clear is kindness. It prevents misinterpretation and allows everyone to understand exactly what we need or want. Share on X

How do you help people learn to be decisive like that, to learn to make those asks? That’s scary if your whole subconscious programming is, “Don’t ask, don’t be pushy, don’t be greedy.” That was my mother’s voice again, “Don’t be greedy.”

It depends on the situation but I’m a big believer in uncovering the root of your fear behind making that ask because that’s what it is. There’s something there. Are you scared they are going to say no? Are you scared they are going to laugh at you? Are you worried about what will happen if? When we are talking about making these big asks, I always ask people to game out the worst-case scenario and then game out the best-case scenario because it could go either way. You don’t know? I work with people on the mindset because if you are going to ask for something, whether that’s a raise, a piece of feedback, or something else you need, you need to be very direct in your ask. You need to be very clear with who you are speaking to, but do it in a way that doesn’t leave room for misinterpretation.

Often we will say, “A raise would be great,” and we think, “I’m being very direct. I’m asking for this increase.” “Elizabeth, I would like a raise.” Great. Elizabeth gives me 2%. That’s not what I meant. I meant 10%, you know? Then you leave feeling disappointed. It’s being very clear holistically with the entire ask gaming at best case and worst case, and then following through with that. A big piece of the mindset, too, is you already have the “no.” If you are going to ask me for an increase and you don’t ask, you already have the no, but if you do ask, you might get the, “yes.”

If you are going to ask for a raise, if you need a raise and you don’t ask, they have already said “no,” because you didn’t ask.

That’s a good way to switch your mindset around you already have that “no,” so we are already there if you don’t ask but if you do ask, there’s a potential for “yes.”

I had somebody tell me once, “You’ll never know if you don’t play the game.” Yes, you might lose, but you might win and I thought, “I couldn’t possibly.” That was in my early 30s, but I thought, “There’s no way they will say yes.” My friend said, “What if they did?” I had to get past a lot of fear and resistance because I was so connected to the idea that they would say “no.” That’s something I see so many other women do, and thank God that was years ago, but I see so many women still doing it and talking ourselves into that.

We do and one thing we have to remember is fear is 1 mile wide but 1 inch deep. If we can go that 1 inch, we are good. We are good but we look at it and see this big monumental, expansive thing that we can’t possibly get around. It’s not about going around it, it’s about going through it.

 

I love that. That’s wonderful. You have this four-step framework to deal with it, to get ourselves unstuck from the sticky floors. I want to send in Carol Burnett’s washerwoman with her mop.

It’s like, “No mobs here, Elizabeth.” This is the framework that’s helped me move through my sticky floors. It’s all a bit rooted in science, but I call it my SNAP framework, and it’s catchy “SNAP out of your sticky floors.” It’s all about first stopping. That’s for the S. Stop and take note of the physical sensations in your body, because I don’t know about you, but I can ignore warning signs for so long. I can push it way down deep, but if you stop and take note like, is your heart racing? Are you experiencing anxiety? Are your palms clammy? Are they sweaty? Are you antsy? What are those physical sensations that are going on in your body? We need to name that sticky floor.

We stop, we take note, and then we name our sticky floor because once you name that sticky floor, you start to take power back. You start to take ownership of that sticky floor. I’m a big fan of, like, you cannot un-ring the bell. Once you are aware of it and you pull that into the conscious mind, you know, “I’m struggling with perfectionism, or I’m struggling with the fear of saying the wrong thing, or I’m struggling with the ‘no.'”

You name it, you take the power back. Then you have to ask and answer. That’s step A. Ask and answer some deep and personal questions. That’s peeling back the layer of the onion to go deep and try to figure out, why I feel this way. What is going on in my life and my past that leads me to think about this thing? It could be societal expectations it could be the way you were raised it could be what you have learned through viewing what’s happening in your own home but we all learn and take in the world and perceive it and internalize it in different ways, and so when you ask and answer those deep and personal questions, you can start to uncover the root cause.

Then the magical step, this is the final step, is the P for Pivoting, which is a simple reframe. That’s changing your thoughts from “I don’t have to do this” to “I get to do this,” or “I haven’t done this yet” to “This is something I can conquer,” from “They are going to say no” to “What if they say yes?” It’s going from a life of limits to infinite possibilities, and it’s a complete mindset shift. If you hone in on answering and asking yourself those pivotal questions, and then choosing a different thought, you will be amazed at how quickly you can pull yourself out of the sticky floors.

One of the objections I get a lot is, “I am so busy, I’ve got a job, I’ve got a family. I don’t have time to do this thing work.” How do we fit that into our lives?

Making Time For Self-Improvement

You have to make time. I tell people all the time, that if you don’t make time for your health and wellness, you will have to make time for illness. If you don’t stop and dig through, those problems are still going to come at you. You might not recognize it right now. You might get passed over for small stretch projects and little promotions, and then you start to notice that your counterpart, who’s always asking for things and always standing up and raising their hand, when you are sitting there quietly they are getting more promotions than you. They are getting bigger increases than you. They are taking new jobs outside of the company, and you’ll start to notice that they are taking quantum leap-style jumps while you are being held back and slowly making progress. That’s the thing about these sticky floors, it’s not always this big, catastrophic thing. They are these tiny little moments that add up over time and keep you stuck.

If we don’t make time for our health and wellness, we’ll have to make time for illness. Life’s choices always catch up to us. Share on X

One of the things I found is the value of community. Having a group that will give you some accountability, and also not let you sneak back into old habits. How do you recommend finding a group like that?

I have a board of directors, and I have them all for myself, but I don’t make them up like I need to have one person who’s good in finance to help me with my business, and one person who’s good at communications. On my board of directors, I have a person that I call my hype person, and that is the person who knows I want to be a courageous person. They know I want to do the courageous thing.

You always know when you are playing small. You might not want to admit it, but you know it. I will call her, and I will say, “I’m thinking about doing this thing, whatever it is. Maybe it’s starting a podcast, maybe it’s putting myself out there for a big-time speech that I didn’t think I could ever get.” I will tell her all the reasons why I can’t do it, or why I shouldn’t do it, or why I will never get chosen, or why they will say no. She usually lets me talk about it for a little bit.

We vent it out, and then she asks me to look at the opposite side of the coin. “What if you do get that position, Erica? Why shouldn’t you apply, Erica? But what would you tell someone else in your position, Erica?” I allow that person, my hype person, to be a mirror back to me, because I am a hype woman for so many women out there, and I love doing that work. I love encouraging them and cheering them on but again, we all have our sticky floors. I have to have that hype person who can flip the mirror around.

Your question is, how do you find someone like that? You’ve got to get out and network. Maybe you can find these people in your neighborhood, maybe you can find them in your community but if you are looking for people who can help you level up, you’ve got to get out of the places that you are and into the rooms where those people are and find yourself. Whether you are paying to be in a different type of community. I do that. I’m in a women’s community group that I pay to be a part of because it is all high-caliber, executive-level women.

You need to do that. Other times you might get lucky, but there are also a lot of community events that you can go to and different types of ERG groups that you can go to. Honestly, get on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the place to reach out to people, to say, “You are where I want to go. Can I pick your brain for a little bit?” You would be surprised at how many people are so open to sharing.

If someone’s reading and says, “They are speaking my language. I need to do it. I can’t wait for the book to come in the mail.” Where is one place you can start?

You can start at my website. That will take you anywhere and everywhere you want to go as it relates to me, but that’s EricaAndersonRooney.com.

What’s one action that we could take? Somebody reading this, and they get to the end of the blog, and they say, “I’m going to do something.” What’s one action they could take?

My favorite exercise that I encourage everyone to do every single day is to take one brave bite. We are all fearful of the “no,” of the ask, of the “what ifs.” I always tell people, “How do you become a brave person? You do a brave thing every day.” That brave thing doesn’t have to be a big thing, but over time, little Brave Bites become bigger Brave Bites, which become massive Brave Bites, and you become more and more comfortable and confident doing brave things. I always tell people, that if you want to do one thing, figure out what is something that they are a little bit nervous about, a little bit scared about, and take that brave bite.

Closing Remarks And Call To Action

Erica, it has been such a delight to have you on the show. I appreciate it, and I’m so glad we met. I’m going to follow you, and I hope this is going to be the first of many conversations that you and I have.

It was so much fun chatting with you, Elizabeth. Thank you.

Thank you for being the guest. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe to us on YouTube or your favorite platform. Tell your friends, and especially, please leave us a good review on Apple Podcasts, because that’s the one that the algorithms track, and so that’s how people are going to find us. I will see you on the next one.

 

Important Links

• Erica Anderson Rooney
• Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors
• Likable Badass
• YouTube – Speakers Who Get Results
• Apple Podcasts – Speakers Who Get Results
• Erica Anderson Rooney on Instagram
• Erica Rooney on LinkedIn
• @EricaAndersonRooneu on YouTube

 

About Erica Anderson Rooney

In a world where women are told to have it all, do it all, and be it all, the reality is far more complex. The pay gap looms large, taking 132 years to close, while the confidence gap, the leadership gap, and the broken rung in the corporate ladder persist.

Erica Anderson Rooney knows these challenges intimately. She’s climbed the ranks to the C-suite while raising a family, facing these obstacles head-on. But she’s not here to tell you to settle for less. She’s here to show you how to break through the barriers, to shatter glass ceilings and rise above the sticky floors. As a seasoned C-Level Executive, captivating keynote speaker, and esteemed podcast host, her mission is simple: To obliterate the glass ceiling once and for all.

At the heart of her influence lies her best-selling book “Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors: Shattering Limiting Beliefs and Toxic Behaviors to Uncover Infinite Possibilities.” – It’s not just a book – it’s a revolutionary playbook for today’s women.

Erica has been recognized as the CHRO Of the Year, ICON Top Chief People Officer Award, 2024 Inclusive Leader Award, and has been recognized on news outlets across the country for her work in gender equality. She has spent the last 15 years scaling the corporate ladder to the highest levels of leadership, amplifying the voices of women along the way. Erica’s passion extends beyond boardrooms and stages, she’s on a mission to empower, uplift, and to amplify the lives of women everywhere.

Together with influential leaders she is tackling the pivotal question: How do we unleash the full potential of women and ensure they ascend to positions of power and influence and keep them there?