Clicks Are Not A Relationship With Juliet Clark

by | Feb 5, 2020 | Podcasts

SWGR Clark | Finding Qualified Leads


In this modern digital age, selling our work entails marketing, which is key if we want to reach out to as many clients as possible. In this episode, Elizabeth Bachman interviews sought-after speaker and podcaster Juliet Clark about the latest trends in marketing, why assessment marketing brings better results, and how using assessments when giving a speech can help you find and bring in more qualified leads.

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Clicks Are Not A Relationship With Juliet Clark

Using Assessment Marketing To Find Qualified Leads

I’m delighted to have you here. I’m really excited because we have my dear friend Juliet Clark as our guest. This is a show about how we can hone and practice our presentation skills in order to get our audience to do what we want them to do. Whether you’re speaking on a stage in front of many people or in a meeting or convincing one important person, there are hundreds of tools you can use to craft your presentation to get the results that you want. I’d like to invite you to go to and take about five minutes to see where your presentation skills are strong and where maybe you’d like to have a little support.

Juliet Clark is a dynamic and sought-after speaker and podcaster who has spent the last several years helping authors, coaches, speakers and small businesses all over the world build expert platforms. Corporate companies, startups and author and speaker incubators worldwide have benefited from Juliet’s unique and massively effective method of mastering lead generation and lead qualification to get expert status. Juliet is a veteran of traditional publishing and corporate advertising. When she wrote her first book, she thought she’d have no problem self-publishing.

What she encountered was a system that didn’t benefit business owners who are writing and publishing expert books. No one in the self-publishing industry was helping new business authors understand how to build a platform that created sales for their books, products and services. Most authors consider a book to be the magic bullet that they were looking for to generate more revenue. What they didn’t understand is the problem of not selling products and services was not a book issue. It was a lack of a platform. Juliet has created a platform-building tool that assesses audience obstacles, generates leads and qualifies leads for business. This simple technology can be used on social media from the stage and at workshops to build email lists and create conversations that build long-term relationships with potential clients. For authors, this means that they sell more products and services before the book is published. In 2018, Juliet launched her popular podcast, Promote, Profit, Publish to help business owners create platforms and keep up with the latest marketing techniques. Juliet, welcome to the show. 

Thank you. It’s always impressive when someone reads my bio.

It’s one of the things about bios when you’re reading it, one of the things that I’ve often done is if people read this very impressive bio and then come on up and show people that you’re human. At one point I came up and I said, “I’m not that special.” My coach at the time was in the audience. She said, “Never say that.” What I do say is, “Thank you so much for reading the bio and I’m only here because I’ve made all the mistakes myself. My intention is to help you maybe not make some of the same ones.” It’s a nice way of thinking of balancing the bio. You can brag as much as you want, as much as you can and then balance it. Juliet, before we launch into content, I’m always interested in where people start their journey. If you were to interview somebody famous who’s not around anymore or at least not in the public eye anymore but made a difference in your life and impression on you, who would it be?

It would be Mark Spitz.

For our audience who did not grow up around Mark Spitz, who is he? 

A big gap in the entrepreneurial world is that small business don't have access to a lot of the tools that big companies do. Click To Tweet

I don’t actually know him, but he won more gold medals in the 1972 or 1976 Olympics then anyone had prior to that. He’s a swimmer and I come from a family of swimmers. It was awesome. I don’t think people acknowledge the swimming world as much before that. A funny thing, after that Olympics, all of the teams went out and they got that suit that the Olympic team was wearing that year with the red, white and blue and it had white stars. What people don’t know about teams swimming suits is that any place there’s white, the suntan comes through. In the summer running around in our underwear, we have stars all over our bodies from the top.

It’s better than some other things. 

One of the things swimming taught me growing up is that anything you want to be good at, you have to practice. We had to get in that water every single day and I was lucky enough that my little sister was a very good swimmer too, probably better than I was so there was a lot of competition in our household for medals. I learned a lot from that. I learned to be competitive. I learned to work hard. I’m not afraid of hard work and I learned what it takes to win and I learned what it takes to lose. I learned a little bit of both. I was touched when my parents passed away. I had to clean out the house and I found a huge box. My parents had saved every medal, ribbon and trophies that my sister and I ever won. That was a touching moment to you because when you’re an athlete like that, it’s not about you. There are parents standing behind you driving cars full of kids. That was a validation about that that was a family thing and that my parents were very proud of us.

To be transparent, I have to tell everybody that she has been my coach for about a year and I particularly like it because she says she’s the no-BS marketing person. I can be BS and I often need to be pushed into doing the right things. I’m glad to have Juliet who’s behind me and gives a swift kick where it’s needed when I need it because I need that coach. I have learned so much from you and I’m excited to be continuing to work with you. You have this lead generation tool. What is it? 

It’s assessment marketing, and actually, the software that we use belongs to someone else who developed it. I worked in advertising for many years. I was shy at day on the Nissan account and then I went over to Mattel. The one thing that I saw when I was using that software was that there’s a big gap in the entrepreneurial world, especially the small business where we build our avatars, where we do consumer research. We don’t have access to a lot of the tools that big companies do to build these things. If you’ve ever been behind a car ad, somebody like Nissan, they know the demographic, they know what region, they know what sells and they know everything about their avatar for every single product. The assessment marketing, when I saw it was a way to have your audience self-identify where they are in the process and give you a lot of information that helps you hone in as the business owner on your avatar.

It does a couple of things. First of all, we work with authors, coaches, speakers and small businesses. We have a lot of enterprise people coming in too. The first thing we do is sit down and define the success principles of what you do. Many of what people teach out there revolves around what are the pain points and what are the benefits. People are a little exhausted by that. We have to be emotional and hit those pain points but people want results. When you sit down and define the success principles of what you do, for you a speaking coach, what does it look like when you’re out there being a successful speaker? What does your presentation look like? What is your body language? Are you getting results?

My whole thing is that the strategic speaking to get results, are you actually getting the results you need when you’re doing that? 

The reason we set those success parameters was that originally my publishing company had people bringing us books and they knew nothing about a platform. When we told them they needed to build them, some of them got angry, “I wrote the book. What do you want from me? People are going to buy it.” The other thing we saw was someone would come and say, “I read a book and they said to do it this way.” Marketing evolves. If you’re reading an old book, you’re probably getting old information.

SWGR Clark | Finding Qualified Leads

Finding Qualified Leads: Sometimes you know when people aren’t going to buy. That’s where the commitment section is really helpful.


For people for whom these terms are new, what do you mean by a platform and what do you mean by assessment marketing?

A platform is your audience-building tool. It’s your message. It’s everything you do that gets you out into the world. At the same time, it’s the audience and the following that you build. One of the things with book people is they think I’m going to write the book and the people will come. It’s like Kevin Costner, only it works for Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams. The assessment marketing piece is you’re going out and getting consumer information from your audience. What’s different from this than a survey? It’s that you’re allowing these people to self-assess their own skillset. When they get to the commitment section, they’ve already seen what it’s going to take for them to be successful at what it is they want to do.

Can you describe that a little bit more? You have a wonderful thing called Lead Logic Quiz. What does that feel like? I’m assuming that a lot of people are going to be reading this. Paint us a little picture of what that is. 

I took a lead generation and qualification and we broke it down into categories. We put statements in there about, “I talk to 3 to 5 people a week that I close.” Let’s say you’re a coach who has a program that sells for $5,000 and your income goal for the month is $25,000, are you closing? We’ll ask like that. I am closing five-plus deals a month and they’re going to take a sliding scale of zero means I haven’t done this yet, and ten is a success. If they consistently have in front of them, “I’m not hitting that,” with the books, “I have a social media following of 1,000 or more people.” If they’ve got a two or three, they’re not hitting that. We’re defining for them what success looks like and then they’re determining where they’re at on their path to success. When we did that, we did it much like the book world. When you write a book, you don’t tell people what the story looks like. You show people what the story looks like. That’s probably one of the hardest concepts that writers have to grasp. You paint a picture of it. You just don’t tell somebody the guy was 5’6″ and had brown hair and blue eyes.

That’s getting up on stage and say, “I’m going to tell you a story about how a client of mine was having a hard time and how I fixed it.” No, don’t do that. Don’t say, “I’m going to tell you the story,” just tell the story. 

Especially with something like this, because in essence, you’re showing them that they’re not doing it correctly. I love to use this analogy. Many years ago, I used to play golf with my ex-husband. If I wasn’t taking a shot right, he would do that thing that mansplaining does. He would get behind me and he’d hold it and say, “Try it this way, honey.” Nobody likes to be told they’re doing something wrong. My first thought inside my head was, “I’m going to hit you over the head with this club, stop it. I’m trying to enjoy this.” What if he had approached it and said, “Juliet, I was out with the pro the other day and he showed me this cool trick. Have you tried this?” I’d be like, “There’s a cool trick. Yes, show me. I want to try it.” It’s the difference between setting the success principle and allowing them to assess and me telling you, “This is what it looks like and you’re not doing it.”

When you go through there, you can say, “I’m good at this. I’m bad at this. I’m only rating myself as a two and I’m a 2 out of 10. I need help here.” That actually for me would put me right into the pain points that we talk about. You do have to wake people up to the pain. I would have me look at it and say, “I need help with this one.”

Marketing evolves. If you're reading an old book, you're probably getting old information. Click To Tweet

That is what it is designed to do. What sets it apart from everything else out there is a commitment section that runs on algorithms and AI. We asked some tough questions about, “Are you willing to solve the problem? Are you willing to invest to solve the problem and would you set that appointment?” We’re trying to take people away from giving things away and expecting people to buy from them into, “Let’s serve you first.”

You’re talking about coaches giving things away as opposed to prospective clients giving things away. You’re giving the client something valuable, which I suppose a free book has value but who has time to read a free book anymore? 

Remember the old eBooks people gave away were novels, 300 pages? They didn’t get read. This is interesting, after our webinars, we used the “Do you hate me?” email. For those of you who’ve done this before, there’s a lead magnet and it’s, “I’m going to exchange my genius for this gift, for your email address. I’m going to move you into a webinar and then I’m going to move you here.” With the “Do you hate me?” email, we used to get answers back like, “I’m not buying anything. I go from webinar to webinar and I’m going to figure it out on my own.” It lets you know that there were a lot of people out there that weren’t going to buy. That’s where the commitment section is helpful because there’s an autoresponder that based on those answers and some of the answers in the quiz, will tell you who is a high commitment that you want to talk to. Who is a hot lead? Who needs nurturing and who is that drive by lookie-loo that you send the “Do you hate me?” email to that tells you they’re never going to buy anything from you?

This has been the best lead generation tool that I’ve been using. I have 3 or 4 groups of people that I talk to. I got a whole bunch of assessment results from people who took my quiz from a webinar I gave a long time ago. Somebody who was in the group that I gave it to shared it with their team and I had no idea so it would happen, but I turned on the computer in the morning and there were these seven people from a company in South Carolina, which is an offshoot of a multinational company. I am nurturing them to get them to sign up for their free 30-minute discussion of the assessment. It’s perfect that this happened before because I learned about it from you.

We had Merrill Chandler from CreditSense. He is at his workshop and had great results. He had 85% of the people take it and another 75% of those were high commitment. His team is working through the leads from the workshop.

This actually leads me to my next question, which is how can you use it if you’re a speaker? Why is this so useful if you’re speaking? I’m talking about speaking to promote your services. 

There are a couple of reasons. First of all, you capture most of the emails, phone numbers and names from the audience. You get a lot of information from them about where they’re at. We work it into the talks and they can take out their phones. It’s meant to be a 2 to 3-minute experience that you can have a few slides to go through while the audience takes the quiz in real-time. That’s one of the ways that is beneficial. It’s beneficial in the way a speaking gig for a webinar and somebody put it on replay and you got leads in the door. Podcasting and radio, you’re speaking and the thing is that iTunes or the radio station owns those stats. You don’t ever get any stats other than, “I had 1,000 downloads.” You have an avenue to start connecting with those people in there. We are using this on an enterprise-level for bigger people, bigger coaches and speakers as well. Those that have teams are actually using it in real-time at the back of the room, divvying up who’s high commitment and their best closers sent off to close that, the nurturer, their warm fuzzy closer. I was off to work with those nurture people and then they’re pushing the noncommittal people out the door with books, CDs and small programs, smaller sales. They’re truly spending their time where they need to spend their time now instead of trying to get the whole room.

I highly recommend looking this up if you speak to promote your services or if you need to get individuals to be your clients. It’s been the best lead generation that I got. I’m a slow decider. I followed another coach who told me about her. I heard about you for a while, so I checked you out. It does work as my other coach has said. “That’s the thing that’s converting.” We talked briefly about the market is changing. You’re talking about what’s working and what isn’t. Let’s pay attention to what’s happening now.

SWGR Clark | Finding Qualified Leads

Finding Qualified Leads: People are tired of clicks; they want to talk to real people again.


Webinars are done. We obviously see that in the marketplace. People are exhausted sitting down for an hour and a half, two hours of learning and then a sales pitch. A lot of that exhaustion comes from many of them, number one and number two, many people are not getting the results they said. They’re not stepping up into those results. That’s not working. What we are seeing working is the small shows. The consistent podcasting is working great for a lot of people, the consistent shows on Facebook where you’re in front of your tribe and other tribes and mass streaming. You’re actually part of a program where lean launch like a pro, where we’re teaching them how to mass stream and repurpose, which is every platform has a different way that their consumers use the content. We’re teaching you guys what those optimal ways are and how to take those things you’re doing and reproduce them. It’s getting that following and bringing them in with the quiz, prequalifying and starting conversations. People are tired of clicks. They want to talk to real people again and thank God for that.

The whole, “I’m doing this and this and I’m making a bazillion dollars and if you sign up with me, you’re going to make a bazillion dollars too. It’s only going to take you six weeks, just pay me to do this.” That’s not working. My beloved falls for those a lot because that energy appeals but not to me. That thing that makes me want to turn around and run the other way.

I have a guy who does this to me on Facebook all the time, “Six figures in three months.” Every single time I ask him, “Can I talk to some of the people who got great results in your last round?” he disappears. He comes back a couple of months later, “Are you ready to do that six figures in three months?” I’m like, “Can I talk to those happy people who got to six figures in three months?” He disappears again.

You’ve also got the advertisers who are the people talking about Google Ads and so forth. “We’re going to get you 10,000 clicks,” which I also gather is not working anymore. 

That is cold traffic. Cold traffic, you should have zero expectation that you’re going to convert. If you’re a marketing person saying, “You got 10,000 clicks, it’s working, but you’ve got no sales.” I dare you to call up Lexus and say, “I’ve got no money but I’ve got 10,000 clicks. Can I make my car payment with clicks?” You’d get a quick reality check because I don’t think Lexus is going to take your clicks to pay your bills.

Juliet, is it still worth it to write a book because you are a publisher?

To be honest, we do not publish as many books as we used to. Our goal is to work with people who are selling products that the book is a true how-to-elevate-and-fill-your-workshops type of book. You’re already platform-building or you’ve already built a following because our goal is not the Amazon bestseller. The Amazon bestseller means nothing. Too many people have cheated their way to the top of the bestseller list with three book sales. There are ways to cheat. Everybody does it. Nobody cares about an Amazon bestseller anymore. Our goal is to truly work with those people who have built a platform and have lists to leverage that can get up to a Wall Street Journal or USA Today credible bestseller list. Our goal is people who have strong businesses who can leverage their list and leverage partner lists to get up to those numbers they need. The numbers are pretty significant. You have to sell a lot of books in a week.

Define what success looks like and determine where you're at on your path to success. Click To Tweet

It’s one of those great things. I returned to the publisher, the first book that I did, because I bought twenty boxes of books. When I first started, which was over several years ago, that was what I started with was a chapter in a multi-author book. I was going to give them away and I was going to sell them and whatever. I had eighteen boxes of books left over. We emptied a storage unit and they’re in the back covered with dust for eighteen boxes of books, which then I took back to the publisher in the hope that some of the other authors could use it. In the meantime, my business has evolved and changed and doing things and I didn’t have that storage unit anymore. I didn’t have a free place to keep it.

Print on demand.

Several years ago, that was not a thing. Juliet, this is fun and exciting and I’m thrilled to be talking with you. How can we learn more? Do you have any words of wisdom to leave us with?

The last time somebody asked me to give words of wisdom to an audience, I told them not to quit their day job and I got in trouble. If you really want to do this well, be patient and be persistent. This is not an overnight success thing. I don’t care what those other coaches are telling you. This is not six figures in six months.

By this, you mean having a profitable coaching business that actually pays your mortgage and your car payment.

What you’re looking for is this sustainable business not being a face and influencer. You’d be surprised how many of those influencers aren’t making money.

How could we find out more? 

You can go over and test one of the quizzes. Go over to or you can find me over at You can contact me at

Juliet Clark, it’s been such a delight to talk with you and I’ve enjoyed knowing you and so happy to feature you on my show. Thank you very much. You can take Juliet’s quiz and you could take my quiz, which is the I’m delighted to have you with us. I’ll see you on the next one. 

Thank you.


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About Juliet Clark

SWGR Clark | Finding Qualified LeadsJuliet Clark is a dynamic and sought-after speaker and podcaster who has spent the last twenty years helping authors, coaches, speakers, and small businesses all over the world build expert platforms. Corporate companies, startups, and author/ speaker incubators world- wide have benefited from Juliet’s unique and massively effective method of mastering lead generation and qualification for expert status.

A veteran of traditional publishing and corporate advertising, Juliet thought she would have no problem self- publishing her first book. What she encountered was a system that did not benefit business owners who were writing and publishing expert books. No one in the self- publishing industry was helping new business authors understand how to build a platform that created sales for their books, products, and services. Most authors considered the book to be the “magic bullet” that they were looking for to generate more revenue. What they did not understand is the problem of not selling products and services was not a “book” issue, it was the lack of a platform.

Juliet created a platform- building tool that assesses audience obstacles, generates leads, and qualifies leads for businesses. This simple technology can be used on social media, from the stage, and at workshops to build email lists and create conversations that build long- term relationships with potential clients. For authors, this means that they sell more products and services, before the book is published. Promote, Profit, Publish. In 2018, Juliet launched her popular podcast, Promote, Profit, Publish to help business owners create platforms and keep up with the latest marketing techniques.